John A. Gardener interviewed by Zachary Nowak
9 July 2016 — Fenway Victory Gardens, Boston, Massachusetts
In this interview, Xxxxx Xxxxx (whom I will call John A. Gardener in this interview) tells about how he started gardening in the Fenway Victory Gardens, his design philosophy for his plot, and what plants he has in his garden. This interview was done on a sunny Saturday in the Victory Gardens, so there is both noise from nearby streets as well as occasional noise from passersby. I used the built-in ‘Voice Recorder’ application on a Samsung Galaxy S6 smartphone, held on my lap about 3’ from the interviewee. The resulting file was in the m4a format, which I converted online to the mp3 format. I transcribed the interview using the online software called Transcribe, made by Wreally Studios Inc.
This transcript is a condensed, somewhat abbreviated version of the original interview. Researchers looking for exact wording should consult the audio files on record with this transcript at the Massachusetts Historical Society. The interviewee sometimes makes false starts, or interjections like ‘you know,’ which I have eliminated in this transcript. I have also eliminated, in most cases, the words ‘So’ and ‘And’ if they begin a sentence. An ellipsis (…) marks where the interviewee trails off, while two hyphens (–) denote one person interrupting the other person. Note that an em dash (—) in this transcription is simply punctuation, used to indicate a parenthetical statement.
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Zachary Nowak: It’s the 9th of July, 2016, I’m Zach Nowak interviewing John A. Gardener. We’re in Plots X21 through 24 in the Fenway Victory Gardens in Boston, Massachusetts. I guess the first question I have is “How did you start gardening?” Is it something you did as a kid?
John A. Gardener: I grew up in the suburbs 25 miles west of here in Holliston, and I had a big back yard, one of the things I miss when I moved to the city. I met Jack here in 1993. [Jack smiles] Then we moved into the neighborhood. We had dogs. Great place to bring the dogs. We had 13 over the years. We have markers for them here. The neighborhood had more dogs then. It was part of the social thing. We brought our dogs down here.
ZN: I was talking to Bruno, one of the other gardeners here, and he and I shared a history of how we got started gardening. At first it was punishment my parents gave me.
JAG: I was the kid who went out in the woods and pulled plants out and brought them into the yard. Some of the plants in this garden came from Holliston.
ZN: Perfect segue: the Fenway Victory Garden Society has records in the Massachusetts Historical Society, with tons of bureaucratic stuff, but very little about what people put in the gardens. Can you tell me where things came from?
JAG: I consider myself a professional amateur; I can tell you the name, but not formally. That evergreen over there I got decades ago, but I can’t remember what species it is. My garden has changed dramatically over the past 4 years because we had a rabbit explosion down here. A lot of plants I used to have are gone: miniature roses that used to climb over my fence and bloom all summer long are gone. Japanese maples, azaleas, gone. So right now I am in transition. I’ll show you one of my long-term survivors: a hydrangea that came with the garden. People have always noticed the color and it is always covered with bumble bees.
ZN: Yes, I can see them.
JAG: There was a beehive several years ago, so I got honey bees too. The bush would look like it was moving, the bees liked it so much. Next to it is a tree peony that gets great big early flowers. Behind that is a new shrub that is an elderberry, a new variety called ‘Lemony Lace.’ Usually they have black lace flowers, so this is a shock to some people. Hopefully rather resistant.
JAG: Down below are a type of fern. The rabbits do eat them, but they are coming back. They self-seed—what particular type they are, I have no idea. Astilbes are the backbone of my garden, many different varieties. If we move over here, the azaleas are something different, yellow and orange ones. That one used to be hot pink. Hopefully it’s coming back. The rabbits and the shade… Behind it, I have a new andromeda, tree or shrub, and a new hydrangea called ‘Abracadabra.’ It’s a lace top and black stems.
ZN: I’m so glad you know some of the names of the varieties.
JAG: That’s because I planted a lot of new things. These purple things are an annual, I believe from Madagascar, called strobilanthes. It adds a nice contrast.
ZN: It’s silvery, glossy.
JAG: I got this for the leaf, color and texture. I have flowers, but I don’t depend on them.
[Mona Miri arrives]
JAG: Here is another hydrangea which should be doing very well. Could have a bit more light. It’s called ‘Lady in Red,’ it’s a lacecap. Normally the stems are a nice dark red color, a bit shaggy. I try tying it up. This bed over here I changed because I used to have 25 or so hostas, but rabbits got to them. I’m trying some new shrubs, I forget the name, something shade loving. It has little flowers. Here is the toughest part.
ZN: Because of the two trees? It’s very shaded.
JAG: Yes, but in addition to that, they suck up all the water. So it used to be hostas, and at the bottom I have a mistake, a groundcover. That it is garlic ginger, so I don’t want to do that. They will be pulled out, but will grow too tall. It would be like Bishop Weed.
ZN: Yes, I’ve seen it in other gardens.
JAG: I look at that with contempt. Rabbits have had a snackbar here. Interestingly, my Solomon’s Seal has been partially eaten.
ZN: You have extensive fencing.
JAG: Unfortunately I fenced them [the rabbits] in! A nice, safe secure place to be, safe from predators. Some hydrangeas are not blooming this year. I grew up in Holliston, where there are wetlands, so I have jack-in-the-pulpit. Do you know them?
ZN: Yes, sure.
JAG: They are very tall, not spectacular flowers, but because they need water, they are spreading. They mix in. A little piece of my childhood is here.
ZN: Did you transplant them here?
JAG: Yes, I dug up bulbs from the woods.
ZN: Did you bring the rose of sharon?
JAG: Yes, I dug up the whole thing. My sister bought the house I grew up in, so I grabbed it before they dug it out. Another thing that is interesting is that I have orchids. One is right there. It’s a terrestrial orchid; there is a lip on the bottom. They come in different shades of green and purple. They are not so attractive. Look at the pink in this one. Another hydrangea which is not blooming, and another plant called goatsbeard, which is like the astilbe.
ZN: It is the lack of light?
JAG: No, rabbits. Here is a dogwood, slowly making a comeback. It’s a pain in the neck to dig here. I damaged the tree when digging. Here is more rabbit damage.
ZN: Wow, I can see at the base of the tree. Leo, another gardener, said that you have a plan, but the plants decide where they want to be, but also the animals…
JAG: They’re watching us. Here are more of the orchids over here. See the beautiful colors. I have no idea what that tree is, but I’m trying to shape it. This is a weeping cherry tree. I bought it mail order, as a twig. I was disappointed, but it comes up and blooms every year, one of the first things.
ZN: Now it’s about 6 feet tall.
JAG: I fixed the branches out to help it get started. Over here that is the stump of where my Japanese maple used to be. I found out that there is a seedling of it that rabbits are killing. There is the biggest orchid. They just come up.
ZN: I can see the challenges of a shade garden.
JAG: Yes, some hostas do well, others don’t. Here is the garlic mustard which was making such a good ground cover. I dug some up, transplanted others. Columbine self-seeds, does very well down here. Touch that plant, then smell your fingers.
ZN: Oh, it’s minty. A tiny mint, a ground cover.
JAG: It’s called Corsican mint, and I believe they make crème de menthe out of it. It used to do a little better in here; it manages to survive the winter here.
ZN: Here is more.
JAG: Some of my astilbes self-seed. Here are some. This grew on its own. It’s an interesting variety which has a strong flower to it.
ZN: Is this feverfew?
JAG: Yes, it can be a thug, but I like the color of it. This a ground-growing variety of yew. Behind there is a Korean lilac, that scrubby thing. It used to be taller: rabbits! The smell carries. There is a little rabbit there; we can’t trap or kill them because it is a public park. I wouldn’t trap or kill even if I could: turn the hose on it. I am trial and error. Michael (my neighbor) and I lowered fences, but we have to increase height. I used to put cages on, but that didn’t work with snow. I accept my losses. The speedwell, and the veronica seems to be ok. Salvia got eaten even if it was deer-proof. Michael is trying bloodmilk. He thinks it is doing the trick.
ZN: What’s that?
JAG: Not sure. I let a lot of things grow till they overtake. I don’t water much. Another thing from Holliston is that tree back there. Looked like a birch. I braided the trunks, but rabbits got it. There are suckers. This other stump is a nectarine tree which was here when I got the garden. Person who got it did not obey height rules because it got tall. I’m over the height rule too with several items. The squirrels got to fruit before I did. I cut it back last year, rabbit damage. Behind us was a golden euonymus. Rabbits got most of it. Had a quince over there, pretty pink flower, part of my living fence. This hydrangea is from Holliston, it wants more warmth. I just put this here, get it upright, a lupine. If it self-seeds, I let it go.
ZN: Let’s sit down for a few more questions.
JAG: Dylan, my long-haired Dachshund, lived to be 17 years old.
ZN: Wow!Well, let’s see, what are the challenges? For this garden, the shade, but are there others?
JAG: In the city, things can disappear: unwanted visitors, flower thieves. There were gypsies. We were calling them gypsies, but we don’t know if they were actually gypsies. They cut flowers and sold them. Particularly hydrangea bushes. It devastated the plants. I got creative and spray painted flowers. It worked for a while.
ZN: I take botanical specimens all over the Fens, and I try to go down the paths back into the reeds, because where people have tramped down the reeds, you get all sorts of flowers.
JAG: You mean along the river? You know what those paths are from, don’t you?
ZN: It seems like there are a couple different uses.
JAG: No, there is one specific use for that. It’s not so much now with current dating apps that are out there but the Fenway Victory Gardens have had a double life for decades. And this is the darker… [Jack interjects warning that it might not be a good idea to talk about this topic]
JAG: This place was a well-known place for cruising for sex?
ZN: After the bars close?
JAG: Mostly. 24 hours. In fact right now, people are looking for sex, over in the corner there. That’s what those paths are from. They’re hooking up, having sex. [Jack interjects again] There are also people who hang out, do drugs—you could get mugged back there.
ZN: But I also find back in the “rooms”—you go back in the paths, and there are “rooms”—there is the river, and there’s a chair and a Hood’s milk crate. Someone can rest their book or their drink or whatever.
JAG: You’ve got the story completely wrong. What you’re looking at is a chair that was stolen out of the garden, and some guy’s sitting back there…uhh…
ZN: Gotcha, it’s not for reading a book.
JAG: It’s for being serviced. Same thing for the milk crate.
ZN: I’ve definitely seen some people wandering around the edge…
JAG: There is nothing innocent or sweet. There may be a couple of birdwatchers, but that area is the dark side–
ZN: –and one guy taking botanical specimens! [laughs]
JAG: Or people involved with [controlling] the geese. Or dredging the river. I can guarantee they are up to no good up there.
ZN: But is it a problem for the gardeners?
JAG: Yes, it is, because it overflows into here. This is back in the ‘70s, before my time. Police go in there and it is like rats jumping a ship. Pouring out of there. Sometimes you find condoms in your garden. That’s the reality.
ZN: No one has ever said anything to me looking for sample flowers. What was the best part of having a garden here?
JAG: I can’t be involved in the politics anymore. Living close and coming down where it is quiet, a place for dogs on a leash. Jack does paperwork down here. He is an independent contractor. We have a table. I can’t sit still down here. I try to relax, but there are things to do. We had a hammock here for a while. Occasionally there are plant thieves, or unethical gardeners. If a garden goes vacant, people come in for what’s left. I love the creative outlet, used to do pottery, up there in the tree. I just had so many pieces, so I made a guardian for the garden. I’ve got to get up there and fix that one.
ZN: That’s pretty much it. I appreciate it! Thank you.
